KARZAI: Thank you very much, Mr. President.
It's a great honor to be in your very beautiful country once again, especially during fall, with all the lovely leaves around.
And thank you very much for the great hospitality that you and the first lady are always giving to a guest, especially to me.
And
thanks also for your visit to Afghanistan and for seeing us in our
country, and for seeing from close as to who we are and how we make it
to a better future.
I'm very grateful, Mr. President, to you and
the American people for all that you have done for Afghanistan for the
last four-and-a-half years, from roads to education to democracy to
parliament to good governance effort to health and to all other good
things that are happening in Afghanistan.
Mr. President, I was
the day before yesterday in the Walter Reed hospital. There I met
wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan. And there also I met a woman surgeon
with six boys, from 7 to 21, that she had left behind in America in
order to build us a road in the mountainous part of the country in
Afghanistan.
KARZAI: There's nothing more that any nation can do
for another country _ to send a woman with children to Afghanistan to
help. We are very grateful. I'm glad I came to know that story. And
I'll be repeating it to the Afghan people once I go back to Afghanistan.
We
discussed today all matters that concern the two countries: the
question of the reconstruction of Afghanistan, improvement for the
reconstruction of Afghanistan, the equipping of the Afghan army, the
training of the Afghan army, the police in Afghanistan, in all other
aspects of reconstruction.
We also discussed the region around
us; discussed our relations with Pakistan and the question of the joint
fight that we have together against terrorism.
And I'm glad that,
Mr. President, that you are, tomorrow, hosting a dinner for me and
President Musharraf. And I'm sure we will come out of that meeting with
a lot more to talk about to our nations in a very positive way for a
better future.
Mr. President, we, the Afghan people, are grateful to you and the American people for all that you have done.
I had things in mind to speak about, and you did that. So I will stop short and let the questions come to us.
BUSH: We'll have two questions a side.
Q: Thank you, sir.
Even
after hearing that one of the major conclusions of the national
intelligence estimate in April was that the Iraq war has fueled terror
growth around the world, why have you continued to say that the Iraq
war has made this country safer?
And to President Karzai, if I
might: What do you think of President Musharraf's comments, that you
need to get to know your own country better when you're talking about
where terror threats and the Taliban threat is coming from?
BUSH: You want to start?
KARZAI: Go ahead, please.
BUSH:
I, of course, read the key judgments on the NIE. I agree with their
conclusion that, because of our successes against the leadership of
al-Qaida, the enemy is becoming more diffuse and independent.
I'm
not surprised the enemy is exploiting the situation in Iraq and using
it as a propaganda tool to try to recruit more people to their
murderous ways.
Some people have, you know, guessed what's in the
report and have concluded that going into Iraq was a mistake. I
strongly disagree. I think it's naive. I think it's a mistake for
people to believe that going on the offense against people that want to
do harm to the American people makes us less safe.
The terrorists
fight us in Iraq for a reason; they want to try to stop a young
democracy from developing, just like they're trying to fight this young
democracy in Afghanistan.
And they use it as a recruitment tool
because they understand the stakes. They understand what will happen to
them when we defeat them in Iraq.
You know, to suggest that if we
weren't in Iraq we would see a rosier scenario, with fewer extremists
joining the radical movement, requires us to ignore 20 years of
experience.
We weren't in Iraq when we got attacked on September
the 11th. We weren't in Iraq and thousands of fighters were trained in
terror camps inside your country, Mr. President. We weren't in Iraq
when they first attacked the World Trade Center in 1993.
KARZAI: Yes, sir.
BUSH: We weren't in Iraq when they bombed the Cole.
KARZAI: Yes, sir.
BUSH: We weren't in Iraq when they blew up our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.
My
judgment is, if we weren't in Iraq, they'd find some other excuse,
because they have ambitions. They kill in order to achieve their
objectives.
You know, in the past, Osama bin Laden used Somalia as an excuse for people to join his jihadist movement.
In
the past, they used the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It was a
convenient way to try to recruit people to their jihadist movement.
They've used all kinds of excuses.
This
government is going to do whatever it takes to protect this homeland.
We're not going to let their excuses stop us from staying on the
offense.
The best way to protect America is to defeat these killers overseas so we do not have to face them here at home.
We're not going to let lies and propaganda by the enemy dictate how we win this war.
Now,
you know what's interesting about the NIE? It was an intelligence
report done last April. As I understand, the conclusions _ the evidence
on the conclusions reached was stopped being gathered on February _ at
the end of February.
And here we are coming down the stretch in
an election campaign and it's on the front page of your newspapers.
Isn't that interesting? Somebody's taken it upon themselves to leak
classified information for political purposes.
I talked to John
Negroponte today, the DNI. You know, I think it's a bad habit for our
government to declassify every time there's a leak, because it means
it's going to be hard to get good product out of our analysts. Those of
you who've been around here long enough know what I'm talking about.
But
once again there's a leak out of our government, coming right down the
stretch in this campaign in order to create confusion in the minds of
the American people.
In my judgment, that's why they leaked it.
And
so we're going to _ I told the DNI to declassify this document. You can
read it for yourself. It will stop all the speculation, all the
politics about somebody saying something about Iraq; you know, somebody
trying to confuse the American people about the nature of this enemy.
And
so John Negroponte, the DNI, is going to declassify the document as
quickly as possible _ declassify the key judgments for you to read
yourself.
And he'll do so in such a way that we'll be able to protect sources and methods of _ that our intelligence community uses.
And then everybody can draw their own conclusions about what the report says.
Thank you.
Q: (OFF-MIKE)
BUSH: Why _ why is declass _ what was that question?
Q: Why is that declassification not a political act?
BUSH: Because I want you to read the document so you don't speculate about what it says.
You
asked me a question based upon what you thought was in the document _
or at least somebody told you was in the document. And so I think
you'll be able to ask a more profound question when you get to look at
it yourself ... as opposed to relying upon gossip and somebody, you
know, who may or may not have seen the document trying to classify the
war in Iraq one way or the other.
It's a _ just I guess it's just
Washington _ isn't it? _ where, you know, we, kind of _ there's no such
thing as classification anymore, hardly.
But, anyway, you all take a look at it, and then you'll get to see.
KARZAI: Ma'am...
BUSH: Why don't you ask them _ yeah, you got the two-part question.
KARZAI:
Ma'am, before I go to the remarks by my brother, President Musharraf,
terrorism was hurting us way before Iraq or September 11. The president
mentioned some examples of it.
These extremist forces were
killing people in Afghanistan and around for years, closing schools,
burning mosques, killing children, uprooting vineyards with vine trees,
grapes hanging on them, forcing populations to poverty and misery.
They came to America on September 11, but they were attacking you before September 11 in other parts of the world.
We are a witness in Afghanistan as to what they are and how they can hurt. You are a witness in New York.
Do
you forget people jumping off the 80th floor or 70th floor when the
planes hit them? Can you imagine what it will be for a man or a woman
to jump off that high?
Who did that? And where are they now? And
how do we fight them, how do we get rid of them, other than going after
them? Should we wait for them to come and kill us again?
That's
why we need more action around the world, in Afghanistan and elsewhere,
to get them defeated. Extremism, their allies, terrorists and the likes
of them.
On the remarks of my brother, President Musharraf,
Afghanistan is a country that is emerging out of so many years of war
and destruction and occupation by terrorism and misery that they
brought to us.
We lost almost two generations to the lack of education. And those who were educated before that are now older.
We
know our problems. We have difficulties. But Afghanistan also knows
where the problem is, in extremism, in madrassas preaching hatred,
places by the name of madrassas preaching hatred. That's what we should
do together, to stop.
The United States, as an ally, is helping
both countries. And I think it is very important that we have more
dedication and more intense work, with sincerity, all of us, to get rid
of the problems that we have around the world.
Q: Mr. President, what is your new strategy to fight against terrorism and also to deal with narcotics in Afghanistan?
Thank you.
KARZAI: All right.
This was to me or to President Bush?
OK.
Ma'am,
there is no new strategy on the fight against terrorism. We are
continuing the strategy that we have. We are implementing the strategy.
We are moving further in that strategy. We are getting more of them.
We're trying to clean the country of these elements and the region of
these elements by doing more reconstruction, by doing more search for
the terrorist elements hiding around there.
So the fight against terrorism will continue the way we started it, on all...
Q: (OFF-MIKE) think it's working now the way it's going?
KARZAI: It is absolutely working.
We
come across difficulties as we are moving forward, and that's bound to
happen. And we get over those difficulties. We resolve them, and we go
the next stage of this fight against terrorism for all the allies.
At
one stage, four years ago we had a war against them to dislodge them
from Afghanistan, to remove them from being the government of
Afghanistan. And then there were major operations against them to
arrest them or to chase them out.
And then we began to rebuild
the country, to have roads, to have schools, to have health clinics, to
have education, to have all other things that people need all over the
world.
And now we are at a stage of bringing more stability and trying to get rid of them forever.
The
desire is to do that sooner. But a desire is not always what you get.
So it will take time. And we must have the patience to have the time
spent on getting rid of them for good.
On narcotics, it is a
problem. It is an embarrassment to Afghanistan. And I told President
Bush earlier in my conversation with him we feel very much embarrassed
for having narcotics growing in our country.
But again, it has come to Afghanistan because of years of our desperation and lack of hope for tomorrow.
I
know Afghan families, ma'am, who destroyed their pomegranate orchards
or vineyards to replace them with poppies because they did not know if
they were going to have their children the next day, if they were going
to be there in their own country the next day, if they were going to be
having their homes standing the next day.
It has become a reality because of droughts and years of misery.
We
have worked on the problem. In some areas of the country we have
succeeded. In other areas of the country we have failed because of the
circumstances and because of our own failures.
We have discussed
that, and we will continue to be very steadfast. It is Afghanistan's
problem, so Afghanistan is responsible for it and Afghanistan should
act on it, with the help of our friends in the United States and the
rest of the world.
Q: Former President Clinton says that your
administration had no meetings on bin Laden for nine months after he
left office. Is that factually accurate? And how do you respond to his
charges?
BUSH: You know, look, I've watched all this, you know, fingerpointing and, you know, namings of names and all that stuff.
Our objective is to secure the country.
BUSH: And we've had investigations, we had the 9/11 Commission, we had the look-back this, we've had the look-back that.
The American people need to know that we spend all our time doing everything we can to protect them.
And
I'm not going to comment on, you know, other comments. But I will
comment on this; that we're on the offense against an enemy who wants
to do us harm, and we must have the tools necessary to protect our
country.
On the one hand, if al-Qaida or al-Qaida affiliates are
calling somebody in the country, we need to know why. That's why
Congress needs to pass that piece of legislation.
If somebody's
got information about a potential attack, we need to be able to ask
that person some questions. And so Congress has got to pass the piece
of legislation.
You can't protect America unless we give those
people on the front lines of protecting this country the tools
necessary to do so within the Constitution.
And that's what the
debate is here in the United States. There are some decent people who
don't believe _ evidently don't believe we're at war and, therefore,
shouldn't give the administration what is necessary to protect us.
And that goes back to her question: Does being on the offense mean we create terrorists?
My
judgment is: The only way to defend the country is to stay on the
offense. It is preposterous to think, if we were to withdraw, and hope
for the best, things would turn out fine, against this enemy.
That
was my point about, you know, before we were in Iraq, there was
thousands being trained in Afghanistan to strike America and other
places.
The only way to protect this country is to stay on the
offense, is to deal with threats before they fully materialize and, in
the long term, help democracy succeed, like Afghanistan and Iraq and
Lebanon and a Palestinian state.
But there's a difference of
opinion. It will become clear during this campaign, where people will
say: Get out; leave before the job is done. And those are good, decent,
patriotic people who believe that way. I just happen to believe they're
absolutely wrong.
And so I'm going to continue to work to protect
this country. And we'll let history judge all the different
fingerpointing and all that business.
I don't have enough time to
fingerpoint. I've got to stay _ I've got to do my job, which comes home
everyday in the Oval Office, and that is to protect the American people
from further attack.
Now there are some who say: Well, maybe it's not going to happen, you know? Well, they don't see what I see.
All
I ask is that they look at that terror plot that, along with the Brits,
we helped to help stop: people who were going to get on an airplane and
blow up innocent lives in order to achieve political objectives.
They're out there. They're mean. And they need to be brought to justice.
Sara: I, and many of my IC "friends", have advocated dismantling the CIA for over a decade; but no one will listen....!
Gary: I've been a Cowboy fan for 35 years (I'm not from Atlanta!); and TO has/is/will ruin my team! Thanks!
All: Rick Moran over at Rightwingnuthouse, threw the NIE open to "discusion" last night; I was up until 2am, giving him my "thoughts"; here it is for you all!
Sorry, no time to clean up the spelling/grammar!
Rick: so much to say, so little time; it’s late and I have to go to bed soon, have a day job, but I’ll see what I can bang out real quick!
Leak: Politically motivated? Ah, yes; it’s so patentedly obvious; it’s really not open for discussion. President is not going to change any minds among the Leftists by Declassifying it anyhow, they made up their minds the day he was elected; he declassified it for his supporters; they’re the only ones he can reach anyhow.
PS: it’s appearing on Leftist Blogs now, that this has been Declassed, and it isn’t “bad” enough, that there is “another” NIE out there, being “sat” on by the President, that is solely focused on Iraq, and it’s ALL bad!
I strongly suspect that this is wishful thinking by Leftist Blogs and the Leftist press; my guess is that they’re getting vibes thru their rumormills, about the Classified Intel Report leaked by the WashPost & NYT two weeks ago, about the Al Anbar Province, written by that Marine Corps Intel Colonel (who’s a friend of mine, by the way…). Though it IS possible there is another NIE about Iraq sitting out there, I highly suspect I’m correct. IF there was a totally negative NIE about Iraq out there floating about the Intelligence Community, the anti-Bush/Rumsfield factions in the Pentagon would’ve already leaked it to the MSM, like they’ve done with this NIE, in an attempt to damage the President before the mid-term elections. Anyway, time will tell if I’m correct, or just swinging in the wind!
For the question of whether the Iraq War is causing an increase in Global Jihad, I have a rhetorical question:
a)Were we in Iraq, when 3000 people were killed in PA, VA, and NYC on 9/11?
b)Were we in Iraq, when the USS Cole was bombed, and 16 US Sailors murdered, and we were just lucky that the whole ship didn’t sink, killing hundreds?
c)Were we in Iraq, when the two AmEmbassies in East Africa were bombed, killing hundreds of innocent locals, and some 50 Americans?
d)Were we in Iraq, when the Khobar Towers were bombed in Saudi Arabia, killing scores there?
e)Were we in Iraq, when the attack on the WTC in 93 was initiated, and killed 6 and wounded people? Something that’s mentioned about that attack is that IF it had been successful, and that fact that it wasn’t was just an accident; but Ramzi Yousef’s plan was to topple the one tower, into the other, and bring them both down! IF that attack had been successful, it’s possible as many as 20,000 people would’ve been killed! Think about that! Were we in Iraq then?
f)Were we in Iraq when the same people planned the Bojinak airliner plot over in the Philippines, which if successful, would’ve killed as many as 3000+ people, in 1995?
g)Were we in Iraq, when Al Qaeda planned, and carried off the attack against our Peace Keepers in Somalia in 1993?
h)Please note, American troops, acting as Peace Keepers in Lebanon in 1983 and Somalia in 1993 were attacked and murdered.
i)Please also note, that America, protecting Muslim populations in Bosnia, in 1996 and in Kuwait in 1991, still was not good enough for the Jihadis, and we were still attacked and mudered, shortly after each event; so even protecting Muslims, from themselves, and their enemies, hasn’t been enough, to stop the Jihadis from attacking us and killing us!
Anyway Rick, if you can ask all the Leftists who oppose the Iraq War, and spout the meme that the Iraq War has CAUSED Jihadism, if you can ask them those questions, I’d be happy to listen to their answers!
Does a terrorist success breed more jihadists? Such as 9/11, etc.
I don’t know if anyone has ever done any in-depth analysis on this, and if so, it would be hard to quantify/put numbers on it!
But, it only makes logical sense, that the answer is Yes! Military recruitment in the US goes up, during/after “successful” Wars, such as the Gulf War, and also when we’re attacked, like 9/11. Those are historical facts; so it only makes sense, that that applies to them. I can’t imagine, under any scenario, which the Inverse is true; that Terrorist “success” causes the number of Jihadis to go down!
Remember, they declared war on us, not vice versa, and they view this as a War that will last decades, if not longer, whereas we are too stupid to realize that yet; so I doubt that any success has a negative impact on their recruiting!
As for this part of the NIE:
Four underlying factors are fueling the spread of the jihadist movement:
1. Entrenched grievances, such as corruption, injustice, and fear of Western domination, leading to anger, humiliation, and a sense of powerlessness;
2. Iraq Jihad
3. The slow pace of real and sustained economic, social, political reforms in many Muslim majority nations; and
4. A pervasive Anti-US sentiment among most Muslims all of which jihadists exploit.
I would personally, based upon 30+ years experience in the Middle East, and as a Marine Intel Officer and Analyst/Specialist on Islamic Fundamentalism, the correct order of these is:
1. A pervasive Anti-US sentiment among most Muslims all of which jihadists exploit.
2. Entrenched grievances, such as corruption, injustice, and fear of Western domination, leading to anger, humiliation, and a sense of powerlessness;
3. The slow pace of real and sustained economic, social, political reforms in many Muslim majority nations; and
4. Iraq Jihad
Iraq is an excuse, given to them mainly by the Western Leftists, who they view as kindred spirits, and whose talking points they not only study, but use back at us, in propaganda audios/videos from Bin Laden/Zawahiri, and formerly Zarqawi, and now the new mouthpiece, the American Jihadi, Adnan Ghadan
When I first started traveling throughout the Middle East, in the last 1970’s, the Anti-Americanism was already there; the core issue was US support for the State of Israel, which in their view, the ONLY reason it exists, then, and today, is because of US economic and military support, and the support of the US Jewish community; which according to THEM, controls the US Government, the US Media, the US Banking Industry, Hollywood, etc.
Let me make this absolutely clear: THEY FIRMLY BELIEVE THIS! This is a firm as “truth” to them, as death and taxes are to us!
Anyway, the anti-Americanism was already there, and every single setback, every single act, every single event, is viewed as being manipulated, or caused to happen, by the US, via it’s Jewish masters! Again, in this respect, they’re a lot like the Looney Left in this country, and Europe, with the anti-Semitism!
Don’t forget, this goes at least back to WWII; the Arabs, specifically countries like Egypt, and people like the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, WHOLEHEARTEDLY thru their lot in with Nazi Germany and the Italian Fascists!
The Grand Mufti went to Germany, to help plan the Holocaust, which they now deny, in an irony of all ironies! From Tunisia, to Egypt, to Syria, to Iraq, to Palestine, Nazi Germany was the flavor of the day! The Grand Mufti helped form a Division of Muslim troops in the Balkans, to fight under the Nazi flag!
After WWII, it was short step from supporting Fascism, to alliances with the Soviet Union for Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Algeria, and post-Kaddafi, Libya!
From there, it is a short segue into Point #2; I really, in my entire career in the Middle East, never heard of such a thing as a “moderate” Imam on a Friday morning. Politically Correct Westerners will pooh-pooh this, and Muslims practicing TAQIYYAH will deny it; but for centuries, the pulpits of the Imams have been used to Islamicize, and preach Jihad, to generations of Muslims.
I presciently wrote about this very issue, 16 years ago, attempting to warn the Intel Community about the threat of increasing Jihadism, post the Gulf War.
Imams preach the glory days of Islam, from the pulpit, and a weekly basis on Friday mornings; the Glory that was the worldwide Islamic Caliphate, from the Pyrenees Mountains in Spain, to the sub-tropical jungles of West Africa, to the shores of Zanzibar in East Africa, to the Caucus Mountains in Central Asia, to the archipelago of the Philippine Islands!
The bygone Golden Empires of Al Andalus and the Alhambra in Granada, the Ottoman Caliphate, the blue city of Bukhara, the wonders of the Mughal Empire in India, and the Taj Mahal, to the conversion of the Hagia Sophia chuch into a Mosque in Istanbul, are events in Islamic history, that are inculcated into EVERY Muslim child, from the time they can read/write/attend Mosque!
Coupled with the inherent sense of superiority within Islam itself; the one “true” religion; the only true monotheistic religion; the only “revealed” religion; the only religion whose Holy Book has been unaltered, and unadulterated by Man, etc., and you have a “people”, Muslims, who arrogantly believe that THEY are the chosen ones, their religion proves it, but the past 700 years of History, since the Reconqista in Spain in 1492, has been TOTALLY against them!
They cannot, for the life of them, rationally rectify this painfully obvious dichotomy, and it has psychologically impacted an entire religion of people, and their behavior, for 700 years!
Point #3 is a “strawman” argument, thrown in there to satisfy the “PC” crowd with in the Intelligence Community!
Right thinking Muslims, don’t even believe in Democracy; not like we do in the West, anyhow. Al Qaeda itself makes that clear! Democracy is contrary to the teaching of Islam; the ONLY Democracy you will have, within a Sharia-controlled society, is what Allah gives you! End of story!
And with a Insha’allah (God Wills it), Bokra (Tomorrow), Ma’alesh (Never mind) mindset (IBM it is referred to by Westerners in the “know”); especially among Sunnis, who completely believe in Allah’s Will, and predestination (they passed a law in the Jordanian Parliament a decade ago, outlawing spare tires in Automobiles, because to carry one, was thwarting the will of Allah!!), and you can see, that social, economic, and political reform is a chimera for Muslims; if Allah wanted them to have it, they would have it!
That’s how the Jihadis are callously and capriciously able to exploit scores of homicide bombers (Shaheed, i.e. “martys”); they don’t tell them, if you kill Americans/Apostates, we’ll pay you $10,000; they tell them your life is shit on this earth, and the ONLY chance you have for a better one, is kill yourself in the service of Jihad, and go to heaven, and have all the Houris (virgins) and Ghalims (prebubescent boys) and water and alcohol you can handle!
Here’s a prime example to use, when Leftist start the meme, like point #3 alludes too, that “poverty” causes “terrorism”, and the Muslims outrage against the US, and inspired the 9/11 plotters (despite the fact, that people like Muhammed Atta, and most of his fellow plotters, and most of the Jihadi middlemen, as well as leaders, are in fact, firmly entrenched in the Middle Eastern MIDDLE CLASS; university educated, middle class families and reputations, and homes, etc.
Anyway, here’s a piece of analysis, you’ll see now where else; name the Top 20 POOREST counties in the World:
1East Timor $ 500
2Somalia $ 500
3Sierra Leone $ 500
4Malawi $ 600
5Tanzania $ 600
6Burundi $ 600
7Congo, Republic of the $ 700
8Congo, Democratic Republic of the $ 700
9Comoros $ 700
10Eritrea $ 700
11Ethiopia $ 700
12Afghanistan $ 700
13Niger $ 800
14Yemen $ 800
15Madagascar $ 800
16Guinea-Bissau $ 800
17Zambia $ 800
18Kiribati $ 800
19Nigeria $ 900
20Mali $ 900
Now, go back, and tell me, which ones have produced Jihadis, and Homicide Bombers, and which one has citizens, that have attacked the US, and Western Europe, et. al??
I’ve pulled them out for you:
2Somalia $ 500
5Tanzania $ 600
12Afghanistan $ 700
14Yemen $ 800
What do those Four have in common, I wonder? Only one that I can think of……wait for it……ISLAM! Isn’t that interesting? How uncomfortable do you think that makes the Leftists feel???
Where are the homicide bombers from East Timor?? How about Sierra Leone? Were any of the 9/11 murderers from Madagascar? I’m sure there are people in Eritrea, who have grievances against the United States; how come they’re not blowing us up? What about Haiti, in our own backyard, the Caribbean? It’s not on this list, but we all know it’s an economic basket case? Where are the Haitian homicide bombers and plotters?
In fact, the ONLY Jihadis, to come out of our hemisphere, except for the “homegrowns” in Canada, and Johnny Taliban here, and the Malvo sniper guy, Padilla etc., have come from the two countries that have a Muslim minority community: Jamaica and Trinidad & Tabago!
So the Lefitst meme, that “poverty” (usually implied as being caused by the United States and Oil Companies) causes the Jihadies to hate and attack us, has just been totally deconstructed here!
If you know your history, and demographics, you’ll notice on that list, there are ARE some countries there, such as the Comoros, Malawi, Nigeria, etc., that DO have Muslim minority populations, or in the case of the Comoros, Muslim Majority populations!
That’s Correct! I NEVER said ALL Muslims, worldwide, in ALL countries, were Jihadis or “terrorists”! However, I will say, that EVERY “terrorist” attack, against us, since the Gulf War, EXCEPT for the Oklahoma City bombing done in 1995, WAS done by Jihadis/Muslims.
Does that make ALL Muslims “terrorist”? Again, NO! But it makes the likelihood, that the next time there is a “terrorist” attack against American/Americans somewhere, that it is/are Jihadis/Muslims who carried it out!
Again Point #4 is one that we want them to have; if it wasn’t Iraq, it would be American support for Israel; which by the way, since we WEREN’T IN IRAQ, during Somalia, WTC ’93, Bojinka Plot, Khobar, etc., are the EXACT excuses that Ramzi Yousef and his uncle, Khaled Sheikh Muhammed used! Go research their testimony, over at the “Wiki”, and you’ll see!
And, if it wasn’t US support for Israel, it would be something else. Syed Qutb, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, visited the US BEFORE Israel was founded, and decided he HATED the US, and Westerners, because we too crude, no class, to rough, too loud, too sexual, too new, to uncivilized!
They’d find any excuse, and seize it; which is something you cannot convince the apologetic Leftists, in this country, or Europe, to realize!
Finally, someone needs to explain to Americans, and the World, WHY Islam in general is the way it is, and why it is susceptible to the Jihadi mindset, and why it susceptible to Anti-Americanism/Anti-Western feelings and propaganda!
The short answer is again a Leftist meme, started decades ago by sympathetic, Leftist Historians in American & European Academia: THE CRUSADES!
That inaccurate meme has been so thoroughly deconstructed; it’s not even worth debating anymore!
If you want to see them deconstructed by a professional, here is a good place to start:
http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0506/articles/madden.html
As for me, based upon my own personal observations and experiences, these are the underlying factors; we have to take into account, which you’ll probably see nowhere else.
IF you go back, and look at the crucial time period, the Reconquista in Spain, and the crucial date of 1492 when the Christian and Muslim worldwide societies really began to diverge after Christian Spain finally defeated the last Muslim Emirate in Granada, and expelled all Muslims & Jews from Spain, there are several crucial things that differentiate the two competing Religious Societies:
Western Christian Societies underwent Two Major Transformative Events: Religious Reformation and Industrial Revolutions!
The times/dates were different for every major country, but in general, those two events took place in almost every major Christian power.
For Muslim Societies, the Reconquista in 1492 was the END of their golden ages; yes, there were brief flourishes in the Mughal Empire in India, and the Ottoman Empire, as well as some Central Asian flourishes; but in general, the Muslims societies, especially those most in constant contact with the west, and in closest geographical proximity, took the Reconquista, psychologically, very hard, and began Centuries of retrenchment, regression, suppression, and Devolution!
Religiously, the Council of Nicea in the 4th century, basically “unified” Christianity for hundreds of years until Henry VIII & Reformation etc. Granted, there were “exceptions”, such as the Cathars/Albigensians, the whole Gnostic movement and the Dualists, such as the Bogomils, Manicheans, etc. But basically, the Catholic Church was pretty aggressive in stamping out dissent, and “heresies”, and until Henry VIII and Martin Luther; it was pretty mono-theocratic!
Islam, if you now anything about the history of it at all, was the exact opposite! From the day that Muhammed died, Islam was a fractured religion! With no clear successor, the first schism appeared with the Shi’ites, and the Khajirits; two groups who did not want to follow Abu Bakr, Muhammed’s uncle and elected successor!
It went downhill from there, with literally hundreds of Sunni, Sufi, and Shi’ite sects, canonical schoos, etc., vying for control of Islam, and control of the message!
In other words, Christianity was unified for centuries, Islam was not, and has not, and never will be!
Additionally, another unifying factor for Christianity was that at it’s founding, Christianity was an oppressed religion! It was the new kid on the block; competing against its Jewish progenitors, and the big guys: Egyptian Pharaonic Religion; the Greek & Roman pagan religions, Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Gnosticism, and even splits in its own ranks (prior to Nicea). Christian converts in Roman, use to have battles in the streets with followers of Mithraism, over meeting places and followers! Historically, Christianity was actually a dicey proposition for several centuries, and struggled to just survive, let alone spread. This “toughness”, and ruthlessness, that helped it survive and grow, served it well, in its later struggles with Islam!
Islam on the other hand, came to being, really, at a time where there was a major Political and Military “vacuum” in the Middle East. The old Roman Empire had collapsed, the Byzantine Empire was weak; the Zoroastrian Empire was collapsing in Persia; Egypt was Christian, but a shadow of its former self, and most of the Middle East was devolving into city-state status!
Most people don’t realize, but in less than a hundred years from it’s founding by Muhammed in Mecca, Muslim armies had spread across the Middle East, North Africa, and out into Central Asia, Persia, India, and into Indonesia, and as far as the Philippines and East Africa!
Muslim armies crossed from Morocco, into Spain, and were at the Pyrenees, by 732AD! The growth rate was phenomenal, and too fast!
When things were going good for them, and they were expanding, or in a form of stasis, things were fine! When Muslim armies started to suffer their first defeats, and setbacks, in the 11th century, at the hands of the Mongols, THAT is what spawned the Salafiyyah movement, under Ibn Tamiyyah, that exists up until today, under Bin Laden and Al Qaeda
After the Reconquista, Christian societies came out of the so-called “dark ages”, and began a remarkable ascent, politically, religiously, economically, colonially; all of these evolving factors naturally caused the actual hold of the religion itself on society, to evolve, and weaken.
Obviously, this very weakening, those two Transformative events, Religious Reformation and Industrial Revolution, DID NOT occur at all, or only on a very limited scale/location (possibly Ataturk’s Turkey!), in Muslim Societies worldwide!
Without those two major societal transformative events, that is how today, you have a 1000+ year old Theological philosophy, Salafiyism, that believes it’s okay to cut people’s heads off, that still hold’s sway over a healthy minority of worldwide Muslim societies, and more disturbingly, a larger percentage of supporters and sympathizers worldwide!
There’s an additional Economic factor consider as well!
I once had a wise old Anthropology professor, at the American University of Cairo, ask our class, composed mostly of Egyptian students, how far they thought that Egypt/the Arab/Muslim worlds were “behind” the US?
There was some nervous laughter and glances, and then after some discussion, the Egyptian students agreed that Egypt/the Arab/Muslim worlds were about 150 years “behind” the West/America.
The professor then put this up on the board:
Islam: Ramadan: month long fast; loses also at least 5 weeks of economic productivity each year!
Anyone who knows anything about Islam, the custom of the Holy month of Fasting during Ramadan, and who has been to an Islamic country when they are actually in observance of Ramadan, will immediately know what the Professor was talking about!
They go on a 5 week holiday every year, mandated by their religion, and because they have to Fast all day, including liquids, and thus eat & sleep and fornicate at night, only, between sunset and sunrise, they lose 5 weeks per year, of Economic Productivity!
That’s amazing!
If you factor in the fact that since it’s founding, Islam has basically been around for 1400 years; and thus 5 weeks per year, you get a figure of 135 YEARS of lost economic productivity, and even cultural and societal and governmental as well, over the 1400 year course of Islamic History!
Not far off, from those Egyptian’s students “guess”, all those years ago!
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Note: Mali, mentioned in Dale's piece was also the base of operations for AQ Khan as he established his nuke selling network.